Balancing Act: Navigating ADHD for Entrepreneurial Achievement

Are you on the entrepreneurial journey and struggle with mental health issues like ADHD? Imagine a space where you could embrace your highs and lows, explore the power of self-care and own your unique productivity rhythm. That's exactly what we promise in our candid chat about mental health and productivity in the life of an entrepreneur. We share our personal experiences, discuss the ups and downs, and delve into our struggles with ADHD. By the end of our conversation, you'll understand the significance of faith in our progress, regardless of its pace. 

What's the secret sauce to maximizing productivity? How about balancing tasks we love with those we find necessary, and igniting momentum by accomplishing tasks we are passionate about first? We shed light on this balancing act and our journey to honor our optimal operating hours. We also bring up the importance of flexibility in scheduling mental health check-ins and our thoughts on burnout. Plus, we have a heart-to-heart with a close friend about balancing ADHD and autism while being a parent. 

We dive into the power of professional mindset and rule-based decision making. Listen to us talk about the need to anticipate future trends, the power of automation, and the importance of being selective to avoid tough situations. We wrap up with a reflection on our personal growth, the progress made so far, and the value of imperfection. So come join us as we navigate the world of entrepreneurship and mental health.

Follow our ADHD friend, Leo Guinan (@leo_guinan) on Twitter to see all the incredible things he is doing!

Lobow’s SPARK is proudly supported by Leo Guinan, Kirk Hofstrom, Casey Elliot, Sarah Delano, Justin Allingham, Blushing Crafter, Jamie Young, and Beth Jones.  It is also supported by 10 anonymous supporters.  Whether you want to be mentioned by name or remain anonymous, this podcast does not exist without you.  Thank you so much for your support.

Lobow’s SPARK has started a fundraising effort for Crisis Text Line. We have a goal of $19 per episode as $19 supports one person in their time of absolute crisis with their mental health. If you would like to donate through our fundraiser in titled “Lauren’s Infinity”, the link is listed below.
https://www.classy.org/fundraiser/3638033  

The background music during the recognition parts of this episode, was written by Guy Farmer.  Look him up on Itunes!!

MERCHANDISE NOW AVAILABLE! This is a work in progress but tell me what you want, and I will make it happen!  https://lobowspark.myshopify.com

Transcript

Lobow: 0:06

Welcome to Lobow's Spark podcast. I'm going to take people through day to day in the life of mental health. Leo, I love you. Welcome back.

Leo Guinan: 0:18

Thanks for having me again. It feels good to be here, you know.

Lobow: 0:23

enjoy it as always. This is day one. This is only day one. How are you today?

Leo Guinan: 0:31

I'm doing well today. I'm kind of riding a high off of a couple events that you know was able to kind of push through and some potential serendipity in there. So just yeah, kind of riding that high Felt a little lack of productive today. It was kind of a work holiday and so I just kind of worked on my own shit, but not at any particular pace, and now I'm like man, I really wish I would have done more, but I took the time to relax today and, you know, not push myself too hard. And so now it's about you know, taming the divans. It's like, yeah, no, it's cool that I didn't do a ton Like I didn't really need to. It's fine Like Joe out self.

Lobow: 1:20

How are you able to do that? Because for me it's I don't know how to slow down. It's either a thousand miles an hour or nothing.

Leo Guinan: 1:33

It's hard, yeah, but what I've really realized is that the everything I'm doing is on a much longer time scale, and so any individual day doesn't matter. I'm making progress towards things even when I'm not working because of all the work I've put in so far, like I've got content out there that's doing work for me. I have people who know who I am and what I'm doing, potentially out there doing work for me. I have spaces on the internet that exists that people can find. I don't actually need to be doing something all the time.

Lobow: 2:16

That's amazing.

Leo Guinan: 2:17

It's hard to say that when you don't have all the results. Yeah, like it's all there yet, but I know it's out there and I know it's coming, and so this is kind of my like have faith moment put in the work, yep, the results will show up eventually, because results are a lagging indicator. Right, they don't. They don't come until the work's been put in, which is why it's hard.

Lobow: 2:39

Exactly. So, basically, but this is day one and this is day one. Day two is tomorrow. Day three is the next day, because I feel like Sundays, like Sunday, monday ish, is when ADHD people are at their lowest, because it's welcome to judgment day. Essentially, it's Friday, it's I get off work. I can work on what I want to work. On Saturday, it's I get to work on what I want to work on Sunday. Oh fuck, what about Monday? Now I can't work on the thing that I love, because I know that that is looming.

Leo Guinan: 3:16

It's kind of one of the hacks I use right Right, because I've always got a bunch of different things I can work on. It's easy to procrastinate with stuff that's actually productive, which is it's totally like a brain hack in the sense that, like, I'm still procrastinating on something, but it's okay because while I'm procrastinating, I'm actually working on this other thing that also is important. So it feels like cheating at times, but well, it is because you're cheating, cheating with yourself, on yourself. I don't, I don't know.

Lobow: 3:51

I really wish I had your brain enters the intelligence to do that, because I can't. It is. If there is anything looming, I can't sleep, I can't eat, I can't do anything until that one thing is accomplished, which is why I'm going to flip the rolls, help my goddamn self this season and help other people at the same time. So this is again day one. Day two might be different, but day one is you're excited, you're motivated, like things are going well. Motivated, yeah. What does day two have? Who knows who the fuck knows Like, and that is okay.

Leo Guinan: 4:36

That's one of the things that you know building a business I've really hone in on is the idea that, like there are a lot of up and down emotions with it, right, Like you get all these ideas built up and you think you know things are going to work out a certain way, and then they don't, and so it requires you to take that, that different mindset into it. So I really focus in on the idea of like just having a focus on experimentation rather than expecting results. So it's not like this has to meet. These metrics are out. It's like, okay, now I've got a hypothesis that this might do X, Y and Z, but will it actually? And we'll put it out there and we'll see. Like I don't know, it's gonna put it out and see what happens, because for everyone listening.

Lobow: 5:26

Leo Gaenan is the build in public king. This is a trial that I'm doing to prove that if you check in with someone with mental health that you love every day, it might work. It might actually help them to the point where they don't make a decision, that they are actually getting better every day because someone gave a fuck about it. I am so motivated by this. It's insane, because I haven't met one single person at all with mental health issues that, when they are supported like this, fail to have the confidence to say I love you, leo. I fucking want you to do well, I'm going to check in with you every week. Most people don't have that, so we're going to give it to them on this podcast. We are going to do this. Let's do it. One becomes two, becomes four, becomes six, becomes eight all of a sudden.

Leo Guinan: 6:35

I just got to watch out. That was borderline math.

Lobow: 6:39

What is math? So we do this every single day for five days. What are you most proud of today? What did you do today? That was fucking awesome. That took it easy Fantastic, that's fucking awesome. Yeah, it is because we don't do that enough. No, not nearly enough. I want people to see the fluctuations. I want them to see that if you're on one day, you might be off the next or whatever, but if you're on for five days straight, that's great. That's awesome. They need to see that too. So imagine, if we talk to people every day for five days, someone out there is going to see that like, okay, well, leo was on this week, but I'm off this week, so I'll go with someone else to see the. Can you imagine the impact of that? Like to see it in real time.

Leo Guinan: 7:43

That's it. I mean that's it. It gives that visibility to it. Yeah, it normally doesn't have.

Lobow: 7:51

It's so difficult to describe how excited I am and I know it appears as manic, but it isn't. It was a single goddamn comment that my friends made to me on that trip. But literally just done, done, I get it. I get it now. I have never been treated so well in my life, like mentally. I have never felt more free to be 100,000% myself and not care. I have never felt anything like that. And we go on guys trips every year. But I was so worried about like oh, we're taking this picture at the top of the hill, but I don't want to go hiking today, like I just don't, and to be able to say that and nothing is wrong with it.

Leo Guinan: 8:53

It's just fine. It's like cool.

Lobow: 8:56

You know that was my first day I did not take Adderall no medication in me and I was more engaged than I've ever been because the medicine was those people I am. I'm just. I'm so grateful for the people that are in my life Like I love the fuck out of you Likewise, yeah.

Leo Guinan: 9:24

Yeah.

Lobow: 9:24

So this is so easy to do for people Like this is not difficult to love people, like it actually gives you a jolt, which is dopamine, which is what you lack. So like, how is this not promoted more Like just giving a fuck?

Leo Guinan: 9:48

Because we're expected to give a fuck about way too much and we think that we have to give a fuck about all of it when in reality, most of it doesn't matter.

Lobow: 9:58

This world is so goddamn stupid. That's such a simple concept to me. Is care All right? That's day one. Love you all. Welcome to day two. How are you?

Leo Guinan: 10:12

Yeah, so today has been mostly good, although I'm not feel like I've been bringing a little bit of long weekend into the day. And then also I've got the. I've got two days off, like so. So I'm off for three days and then I've got one day back, and then I'm off for two and then I got one day back and then I'm back in the weekend.

Lobow: 10:39

That sounds disastrous for the.

Leo Guinan: 10:41

ADHD brain. Right and it's like there's just a lot of like there's not a lot of clear priorities for me, like I've got a lot of stuff that kind of needs done and yeah, it's like I haven't been, haven't hit the ground running. Today we'll say I got you, but I'm starting to kind of knock out tasks that are more important.

Lobow: 11:09

So what are you using right now to get those priorities done? Like, what characteristic are you using right now to get that done?

Leo Guinan: 11:18

Because it seems stressful and so it's one of those that, like I don't know, when I feel the pressure to do it, I do it, which is great in the sense that, like I get this stuff done when I need to get it done, right.

Leo Guinan: 11:41

But when I don't have a clear reason to do it or like a clear outcome in mind, I almost just leave it on the back burner. Because there's there's two types of things that really trigger it for me, right? It's either like, oh, I'm interested in this, let me dig into this and see how it works, and the next thing I know, hours have flown by and I've, you know, completely understood everything about what I'm doing and that that's really great, and so that's kind of like the, the inspiration on that part of it. Or I just kind of figure out how to do it, like, oh, actually I can do that super easily, like this way, this way and this way, and so now it's super fast, right, right?

Lobow: 12:30

You seem more upbeat today. Maybe it's an earlier time than yesterday, but you seem more energetic. Yet it's not. You're not getting the things done that you want to get done, but your personality seems higher than it was yesterday.

Leo Guinan: 12:46

Yesterday was a little bit, you know yeah, I typically peak like really, I think my ideal hours of operation are between like and in two or three. Okay, like yeah, that's, that's where I get a ton of stuff done, so knowing that is huge, that's huge.

Lobow: 13:09

My ultimate hours are like 7pm to 4am that's me, but if you know that about 10am and 2pm you can design your day around that.

Leo Guinan: 13:26

Yeah, and honestly I do like that. That's when that's awesome, like my important stuff happens. And yeah, it's weird to talk about that, right? Because, like you know, it's like, oh, you got to work eight hours and it's like, yeah, you do, no, but you don't have to work the same way all eight hours, and actually you really don't have to work eight hours in most cases, but we'll let Jobs keep thinking you do.

Lobow: 13:52

Totally true.

Leo Guinan: 13:54

But you know, it really comes down to the idea of, like, when I'm putting the work in, it's to a clear goal, there's something interesting in it, or it's just something I know I have to get done. Like, pressure is interesting, right, exactly.

Lobow: 14:11

Last question for today, though, because again this is just a building thing is would you say that when you have to get it done, Is that more important than when you want to get it done? So, in terms of if you have a task that you love doing versus a task that you have to do, which one takes priority?

Leo Guinan: 14:41

I mean, that really depends.

Lobow: 14:43

We'll say that very difficult question.

Leo Guinan: 14:46

I try to fit in both into the amount of time Exactly, and usually what I want to do does end up taking more precedence than I care to admit. Yeah. But then it's like I just kind of figure out like okay, well, what of the rest of it can I get done and how much progress can I make in a short amount of time? I kind of love racing myself and so that's kind of what it is right. It's just the idea of like oh, how long should this take? Like I should be able to do it in no time and of course I'm ADHD, so that is not ever accurate. I should be able to do this in two hours. Four weeks later it's like, okay, maybe not.

Lobow: 15:30

I guess my argument for today is that I think people with ADHD choose to do what they want to do first most of them versus what they should do. The thing is, if you can combine what you want to do with what you should do, that can significantly improve your work ethic.

Leo Guinan: 15:53

It can, and a lot of the stuff that I do overlaps between the two Right.

Lobow: 15:57

So that's, great.

Leo Guinan: 15:58

So it all feeds back into itself, and that's really my goal for it. And so you know, and I'm picking, when I'm looking at things that I'm interested in, I do try to find places where there's a lot of overlap, because that way, even if I'm doing the stuff that I wanted to do instead of the stuff that I have to do, it's still going to help me now or even down the line with the stuff that I have to do. And so if I can learn more now to make tomorrow's job easier like I will almost always prioritize that because that's awesome. I want to make it as easy as possible on my future self to be able to accomplish it, and the best way to do that is to get really good at it or automate it, so future self does not have to worry about it, and that's the way I'm taking care of my future self.

Lobow: 16:41

I love that You're talking about momentum. You're talking about getting that thing done and then having that spiral in a good direction to something that you should do, because then you'll have the energy to do it If you've accomplished something that you love doing first.

Leo Guinan: 16:58

Yeah, and it's like I really do look at it as like, if I can spend 10 minutes today to save one hour over the next 30 days or whatever, like yeah, let's do that, let's do that. I really try to automate as much as possible. When I know what I actually need automated, I love it so that I just, yeah, it's a way I don't have to worry about it anymore. And then it's like cool, all the things that we worry about right. Like if we can just take everything up and be like this worry is going to get handled by this system, right, and I don't have to worry about it anymore. Like that's a load off, right. And so I think if we can do that with more things and just get our systems around us designed to help us, as opposed to like all competing for attention or whatever you know, we're going to end up being a lot better off. Yeah.

Lobow: 17:55

But you have a huge passion towards taking shortcuts to things that you don't necessarily love doing, which I respect. I respect the fuck out of that because I, me and technology you know me, you know this like it's so difficult for me to take the time to plug in a system that will help me in the future because I'm only seeing what I have to do now.

Leo Guinan: 18:26

Well, I mean I have like honed this skill over, like you know what 25, 30 years at this point of being like super into this stuff and like seeing how fast it changes, and so a lot of stuff I can even do now because I know where things are going. And so sometimes it makes sense for me to put in an hour now. If it even gives me something, that's only right like 20% of the time, because I know that 20% is actually going to be 80% here in the next six to eight months, and so it seems like it's kind of a waste of time because I'm not saving that much, but I know that down the line it's going to save me a ship ton and I'll be ahead of the game by the time. Most people realize that because I did it when it was 20% right. And so I think if things a lot in that context to have, like it's not just about how much time it takes today, it's about how much is this going to save me in the future.

Lobow: 19:30

And yeah, that's phenomenal. What are you most proud of today?

Leo Guinan: 19:37

Oh today. So one thing I am most proud of I have started the process of migrating my newsletter over to a different site. So instead on the sub stack and I got my first blog published on the new site, newsletter will be going out to a link with it. I've got it mostly written but I haven't sent it yet because it was one of those things this morning that ended up going longer than anticipated so had to shut that off and finish that later. But I think that's one of the big things, just re prioritization. Today it's like I had this idea of things I was going to do and that didn't quite pan out and so I was like, all right, we'll just switch them over. It's okay to have things in progress because they'll get done anyway. Do what you can, move on.

Leo Guinan: 20:26

So, rapid re prioritization.

Lobow: 20:29

Love it. You know, what spawned a lot of this was the whole consulting. What he said to me at one point was it was really just an excuse to connect with you, which is what I really wanted. You know, like I think that's a massively important thing. This is my excuse to connect with you every day, which is what I ultimately wanted. Day two is in the books. However, I will see you tomorrow for day three. Who knows what it's going to bring? Who knows? I love it, leo, I love you. I'll let you get your next call. I'll see you tomorrow. I'm bad.

Leo Guinan: 21:07

All right, man, so that's good. See you tomorrow.

Lobow: 21:10

Welcome to day three of mental health check in. Day three is going to be a little bit more difficult because it is so difficult to check in with someone every day, and it is difficult for the person you're checking in with to meet up with you too, is it not? I mean, life is hard.

Leo Guinan: 21:28

It is. It's unpredictable and to schedule something you know once a week is hard enough. You start scheduling in multiple times a week. Check it's crazy and never sure where you're going to end up in the timeline Exactly.

Lobow: 21:39

Which makes us two resilient motherfuckers for sticking to through this Right. So how are you today, Leo?

Leo Guinan: 21:48

I'll tell you I'm a bit worn down Long day. Yeah, I like that. That was, you know, the dance affair. As I said, we just got back and yeah, managing you know, kids and everyone for that long and just kind of just a lot of waiting Like the worst part, right Like oh, no, no, don't mention that word. That makes me. I know it's that you'll need to bleep that out.

Lobow: 22:19

Sounds like an airport.

Leo Guinan: 22:22

I was Leo again and I proved that message that's getting cut and spliced into all sorts of shit now isn't?

Lobow: 22:29

it. It is, but no, it's been fun to witness, like the changes it's. So the first day, all excited, you know all of that day, one day one. And the second day, you said something that I just I loved more than anything. It was like my optimal operating hours are from 10 am to 2 pm, like being able to recognize that to me was just a massive thing. And leaving on to day three, you're doing things maybe that are exhausting or whatever. However, you're doing them because you love the person that is doing it.

Leo Guinan: 23:10

Yeah.

Lobow: 23:12

I mean, I mean you're tired, you're worn down, but you do it. You show up for them because you love them.

Leo Guinan: 23:19

And it matters.

Lobow: 23:20

And it matters. Showing that matters that again, we're only on day three here. We can't prove the thesis just yet. We got to build it, but yeah, but, but uh, but no, I mean, I think that's. There's something to be said for that right like I know you get tired, I do too, but when you care about somebody you're gonna do it yeah again the simplicity of this.

Lobow: 23:51

I mean because we have this whole thing in the mental health community of you burn out, you burn out, you burn out. Yeah, you do because you go at stuff so hard. But when you burn out, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't wake up when you're ready and do it again. It's the whole concept of like I care about you, so I'm gonna check in with you. You know, when does it get too much, though, do you think?

Leo Guinan: 24:19

I think it gets too much when you let it get to get to be too much. And so it's a very personal thing, because different types of people can handle like different amounts and you can always, like you can always stretch that right that you could train pretty much anything in your brain to be able to, yeah, adjust to different things and you just have to kind of I think, want it enough to figure out what it'll take to make that change right. That that's the hard part, like, yeah, you can pretty much change anything, but it's not easy. I'm a big believer in starting with the stuff that's easy. Like don't make it hard, make it as easy as possible. Yeah, like start there and and build up 100% 100%.

Lobow: 25:04

It's just an attitude of being like I'm gonna show up, I'm going to do this, no matter how tired I am, I'm going to do it it's not a matter of can I do this.

Leo Guinan: 25:13

It's a matter of will I do this? The answer is yes, and so I'm there.

Lobow: 25:16

That's it that's why I fucking love you. What are you most proud of today?

Leo Guinan: 25:23

I'm most proud of just being fairly present, like I didn't worry too much about the fact that I wasn't doing other stuff that I could do and that didn't really occur to me at all, which is wow, nice that.

Lobow: 25:37

That's a big difference okay, wow, that's huge man, because I am always constantly thinking about what, what, what time am I wasting by doing this? You know, instead of the wow, that's a big breakthrough actually that's not bad.

Leo Guinan: 25:56

Like it's. It's kind of nice to just I didn't, didn't worry about it wow, how were you able to not worry about it? So one thing certainly helped.

Lobow: 26:10

Not gonna save that one on the recording yes, so you did something that worked for you, that helped you relax, correct? Yeah, okay, cool, awesome and you are proud of that. I am proud of that fucking right. So you woke up this morning, you had a hectic day, took your kids to the fair, did all these things and you're relaxed.

Leo Guinan: 26:36

I am relaxed.

Lobow: 26:39

I am honestly jealous, as should have that, because, like I still, I don't have kids for everyone listening. I don't have kids, leo does and I cannot imagine going day-to-day with ADHD, much less the autism with kids, because, leo, honestly, you show up for everyone, like your meetings with Justin on Friday nights after you get through, you know, with the Friday nights with benefits or whatever you have, that you talk to me all the time. You talk to you know up all the time. How do you balance this?

Leo Guinan: 27:19

like it's really. I just don't try to balance it now there's the tick-tock.

Leo Guinan: 27:31

I just kind of do what I do, like I do what I want to do and it's a constant. What do I feel like doing today? And like, yeah, some stuff has deadlines and so I'll get to a point where I want to do that and crank it out because the time pressure gets high enough. But like, yeah, I mean for most stuff it's like if it's stuff that I care about improving, it's on the schedule and I haven't, I have deadlines that I follow. Like the YouTube thing right Monday, wednesday, friday, I got to get videos out. Still got to get better at the shorts.

Leo Guinan: 28:02

I do some here and there, not enough, but with the newsletter, the newsletter goes out once a week. I want to do more writing, like I joined a writing group, like I do things to set myself up to. I consciously make the decisions of what I want to work on and then I set myself up in a way that I'll always get to do that stuff. It'll be in the schedule. And like I show up because it's it's in the schedule, so I show up can.

Lobow: 28:28

I say one thing that I'm proud of you for, yes, over the last two days so last yesterday, day two you had mentioned that you were migrating something on from sub-stack to a different you know website goes down the second, we got got off that call guess what? E-bill popped up by a box. Leo guy, damn, I'm migrating from me, while you had said it was hard and I spent way too long on it or whatever, but you got it done like you got it done in the presentation of the timing perfect some like, yeah, it's, I try not to worry too much about it because it's one week.

Leo Guinan: 29:15

Yeah, what one week out of you know 500 if I do it for 10 years, right, it's like that's nothing. One week doesn't matter your perspective, I do it. It I show up, I put in the work, I go, clock out, I go home. I'm professional about it, right, like that. That's kind of what professional is. It's about just like showing up and putting on the work, clock out and go home, do it again the next day or next week or whatever. And no, you do that and you just can't help but get better at stuff and it's easier, like I love that. You just got to show up and put in the work.

Lobow: 29:50

I love that.

Leo Guinan: 29:50

Again, this is my excuse for hanging out with Leo is a podcast, okay, so this is my excuse for connecting with him every day seriously start a podcast and tell me you want me to be on it, because I love being on podcasts, like I've volunteered again to be anybody's first guest on a podcast, because I know how hard it is to find that and I think everybody should start a podcast and so if I can ever do anything to help out, let me know.

Lobow: 30:14

I will talk about whatever some of it I know stuff about, but I'll talk about it there was a genius one time in one of our group episodes that is published, that said it's about getting that constant feedback loop. It's sending it to the people and if you send something to me I will tell you it's awesome, because I spent so long not knowing how to do that that if you put something forth I'm gonna love it because at least you're doing it and you're putting it out there. That is like I remember all your fucking comments, man, like all of them all fade out moments like.

Lobow: 30:52

I know them like.

Leo Guinan: 30:55

I understand I am a terrible critic, cuz like I just I respect people so much for just showing up and putting in the effort. I don't care about quality. You did it, do it enough. And though. Quality will eventually appear, and we're not always great about judging what actually. What is actual quality versus what isn't right. A lot of easy ways to judge like oh, that's good, that's bad, but like on some arbitrary scale, like who are you to find good? Fuck off.

Lobow: 31:24

And on that note. That is day three. Day four tomorrow. Welcome to day four of this ridiculousness of talking about mental health with a close friend. But it's not that ridiculous, leo. How is your mental health today?

Leo Guinan: 31:40

ridiculous. That seemed fitting. No, it was good. So that you know, I was kind of talking, you know, earlier about the, the fair and everything right. But also Henry decided he wanted to ride some rides because his brother was going to later with a friend and so I was like, all right, yeah, like I'll walk around with you, and he went on like several of the like you know, kind of so-called scariest rides, right, alright, dude, like you wanted to do that and you did it like nice, awesome did you tell him, like, how proud of him you were like for doing that that's yeah, I mean, I did it a sense and like one of the things is, I just wanted to kind of treat it as like a normal thing, like yeah, you see something scary, you go take it on.

Leo Guinan: 32:36

Like yeah, it's not a big deal, like right, yep, it's just so you do and hundred percent.

Lobow: 32:42

I oh, my god, what a good point. Okay, so you just taught me something unbelievable that I need to work on within that story, which is, of course, why we're doing this. You said that just treat it like it's normal. You give the fist pump or whatever I've always been raised with. Like when you win a game, you don't storm the field ever, because that should be what's expected, right, like you just act like you've been there before, right, I am very bad at not spiking the ball. The answer. So, and to put it frankly, that actually taught me a shit ton, and I'm not bullshitting. You like to hear it put in a different way, other than football matters to me, so I will. I will try to not have the eight hour all about me fade out at the end of every episode and that spikes the ball, the end zone you know, man, this is your game.

Leo Guinan: 33:42

If you want to spike the ball in the end zone, you spike the fucking ball in the end zone.

Lobow: 33:46

I know, but I I do need to learn a little bit of caution with, like you know, yep episode, good, awesome. You don't have to just keep throwing your best stuff ever at the end of every single thing. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna take that to heart and actually, at the end of this episode, which will be at the end of tomorrow's day five I'm not gonna do that this time I will have the fade out music, you know, and all that, but I'm not gonna do all the clips of my favorite moments ever it's. But I also build my own highlight rules. That's what it is like it's, so I can turn to it when I'm low and yeah, but yeah. So day four, I mean, I'm proud of us. I am proud of us for sticking to this because, yes, when I first clicked like the zoom link or whatever to send you, I was like you know, I'm just, I'm just talking to Leo and I kind of forgot that this is being recorded and we are actually doing a podcast with a point. But I think there is a massive advantage to that, which is when it gets so casual that it's like I'm just talking to a best friend. That is what matters, okay.

Lobow: 35:00

So this is a good point to take a break in the episode and recognize the top supporters of this podcast. Low bow spark does not exist without you. I'm talking about the patreon supporters. Thank you, leo Guy Nann, thank you Kirk Hofstra, thank you Washington crafter, thank you Jamie young, thank you Casey Elliot, thank you Sarah Delano, thank you Justin Allingham and thank you Beth Jones. Also, I would like to mention the nine anonymous supporters of this podcast. I mean, honestly, if you want to support this podcast and not actually say that you supported, I totally get that because I'm fucking insane. But but thank you to the nine anonymous supporters again. It doesn't happen without you.

Leo Guinan: 35:56

Thank you yeah, I mean that that's kind of been my whole thing from the get-go right, like talking about how I like showing things that are more raw and not polished, because anybody can do polish, like, right, you can make a podcast, look like any way you want it.

Leo Guinan: 36:15

Yeah, but first of all, I don't want to edit that much and so I just am like, hey, or instead of editing, we could just tell us shit out there, yeah, and you know, so that is part of it. But I do think that, because anybody can do the polish, the thing that needs to stand out as the authentic. We have the ability to view everybody's lives, but it's through the, the Instagram lens that distorts everything and you know, everybody's showing their highlight reels on social media, yeah, and so my approach is kind of just to show the daily and so, you know, with a lot of the shit that I tweet and everything, it's like it's all what I think about daily, it's what I'm doing daily, yeah, and it just, you know, I think it is kind of lost that transfer out there.

Leo Guinan: 37:09

But it's ADHD yeah, yeah, I mean I was going for a while and then it was like, well it's also my fault, because it's there's no direct questions, this is just us talking.

Lobow: 37:23

But then in the back of your mind you're like oh, this is a podcast. You know like that will be on YouTube we've got the monkey with the symbols unbelievable. I just I think it's a. It's a very interesting concept. It might flop, it might not.

Leo Guinan: 37:39

I love it, but it's just if you love it, then it's not a flop.

Lobow: 37:44

I don't know if I clipped that at the end Like this, but yeah, no, it's just, it's fun talking to you and it's again the simplicity of it is also the most difficult part is you make a commitment to talk to one person for five days straight. That's a massive amount of time and a massive commitment to do. And to be that reliable to someone else every day for five days is incredible to me. You just have to care as long as you give a fuck about the other person. That's what's going to jolt you. To care about yourself, and that's that's my biggest thing is.

Lobow: 38:31

I'm so concerned about this burnout issue that a lot of people with ADHD possess that I don't think a lot understand that when you do work yourself to the bone for other people first, it enables you to think in a way, later that is like I need to put myself first because look what happens. So. But nothing goes wrong in that case because yeah, you spent a lot of time with other people helping them. There's nothing wrong with that. And then later you learned OK, I need to do this for me. So you're teaching yourself by helping other people at the same time.

Lobow: 39:15

I don't you know to me that because when people burn out, they are they're. They're saying like you know, I'm just, I'm done doing this, I'm done doing this. What they really want to keep doing, it is just they're exhausted. But it's OK to be exhausted, but it takes exhaustion to realize that you're tired, Like take the break. And if your time is spent helping other people first before yourself, it can lead into self, like understanding of what you need to do and when, which is what has happened to me the past two years. I know that. You know maybe that's not an agreeable statement. It's put yourself first, put yourself first. But to me, by putting other people first, I do put myself first, because I learn more.

Leo Guinan: 40:13

Yeah, I mean I, you know, I think this is one of those things that, again, it's like each person is different. It works for you. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, because you can go too far in either direction. Yes, and you know, only putting other people before yourself and that's, that's one. You can end up doing that without realizing that that's exactly what you're doing. Yeah, so many people are too busy to even think about, like what's, what's even happening around them?

Leo Guinan: 40:47

I think one of the one of the issues that we've had with kind of all of this like technological innovation is that we end up just very, very busy.

Leo Guinan: 40:56

Yeah, there's a lot to keep track of, and every text about, like diminishing attention spans, like what about increased attention needs, like yeah, everything is beeping at you all the time.

Leo Guinan: 41:07

You've got everybody who's expecting you to do this, that and the other, like right, I mean, what we need to do is we need to get rid of a lot of that, because then a lot of the stuff that we talk about does come naturally. It's just because of all the other stuff that it's just like making noise, it's the squeaky wheel, gets the grease right, like it's the stuff that makes itself obviously needed gets attention, and the stuff that just kind of lingers in the background and it's like you really need more of me, like hey, like hey and friends. Find friends. Like you need friends and like it's that's just missed because it's like, but I've got all the shit to do and it's like no, like you don't, most of it doesn't matter. Find the stuff that matters, focus on that and the rest of the stuff will take care of itself. You just got to be able to like tune out all of the fucking noise all the time.

Lobow: 42:00

And I think what helps us the most tune out all the other noise is talking to each other yes, as friends, and being like you know what? Fuck this, I lost a couple followers. I did this wrong or I thought you know, whatever, fuck it, it doesn't matter, because I'm talking to you. You are a human being that I'm talking to.

Leo Guinan: 42:20

I will say I had my best performing short the other day with like 3.5,000 3.5k views, and I lost 10 followers. So there you go.

Lobow: 42:33

What the fuck All right that makes a little sense.

Leo Guinan: 42:40

Yes, they like me.

Lobow: 42:42

Give me a break. That's that. No, that's bullshit. The more people see you, they're going to realize that you're about to change this fucking world. I just want to know. I'm going to be the cleat chaser, I'm going to be the one. Please remember me, leo. But but yeah, now all that shit. It sucks bullshit, because it's not like there's no reality to someone clicking unsubscribe or subscribe or whatever. What's real is what we are doing right now, which is we love each other, we care about each other, we're checking in. That's it. That's what's real. So to fuck with all that other stuff. I mean it's fun.

Lobow: 43:25

It's a dopamine hit Some of it can be real.

Leo Guinan: 43:30

That's the thing, like. The hardest part is figuring out which parts actually fucking matter. The thing to remember is that different things mean different things to different people, and so how they behave like we end up with just this averaging out of everything, because we haven't been great at designing ways to capture an understanding of metrics and so everything kind of just defaults to a few kind of weird patterns with humans. But yeah, I think we're getting to a place where that is going to widen out and we're going to see a lot of better social networks coming out of that that are actually focused on human relationships as opposed to advertising dollars. It's going to be a weird shift.

Lobow: 44:30

You called that from the beginning, I mean, since I've known you like. You have called that this entire time about everything is shifting so fast it's going to come down to who cares the most. How do we put that online? Basically, how do we make a social network out of caring the most? My thing is how about just a text social network where you check in with somebody? How are you today, Question mark Someone realizes you give a fuck about them.

Leo Guinan: 45:03

Think about the people who are doing what they're doing, regardless of any sort of metrics, like it doesn't matter if it gets one view, gets 100 views, gets a million views, that's never going to change the action, that's the stuff that is going to happen no matter what. And so that's who I look at. When I try to evaluate a social network is like are they actually measuring the people who care the most? And the answer is always no, because when they show people a metric, the people who do well at it are the ones who focus on that metric and figure out how to make that metric move, whereas the people who say fuck metrics, just go out there and do their thing. They're going to be successful because they're just going to keep going. They're just not going to stop.

Lobow: 46:02

You kind of describe me and you Me and you. I think that's it.

Leo Guinan: 46:07

And so it's like when I'm thinking about what's going to end up showing through the end is like it's going to be those people. It's going to be the people who just did it without worrying about any of the metrics along the way. I love that. Maybe the real friends were the metrics are made along the way. I don't know. There's even there somewhere.

Lobow: 46:28

Again, love the shit out of you every day. It's so fun for me to like be able to text you about football or to whatever, and then if you don't get back, you don't get back, and I don't care because I know you. It's like OK, I'll respond when I can. That comfort level with someone else to be like it's not a problem is what we are missing.

Leo Guinan: 46:55

That goes both ways too, because I don't feel that bad, like when I see something and I think I'm going to reply and then I forget to reply, because that's what I do with text messages.

Lobow: 47:06

I just want to do with email. I hit like I literally put it in my drafts. If it's not, you know whatever. And then it's done Like I sent the email. Right, I sent the email. No, I didn't. I put it in drafts a month ago and now people are all over my ass about why I didn't respond immediately. But if those people knew me like you do, it wouldn't be a big thing.

Leo Guinan: 47:29

Eventually, my co-founder is going to handle all of this stuff for me and just like poke me and be like, hey, you need to do this thing. I'll be like OK, and I'll do it.

Lobow: 47:41

And eventually my is going to talk to me on a podcast at some point. I would kill to go up against an AI of me Like we can make that happen. Yes, I really want that. Oh God, leo's got an idea All right. Day four is over. Leo's focused, we're done. What are you most proud of today?

Leo Guinan: 48:13

I'm most proud of just like walking around and hanging out so that Henry could challenge himself a little Nice adventures on those rides, because it never won't. Like you know, we talk all the time about like hating waiting on stuff and like I had no problem with it today. Like it was just it was cool to see him having fun and yeah, that was a.

Lobow: 48:42

Fantastic, that is fantastic. But but yeah, day four is in the books. Tomorrow is the last day and we will talk about knowledge, which Leo is the best at in this category. So it's my worst category. I think it's Leo's best champion.

Leo Guinan: 49:01

baby State champion.

Lobow: 49:03

And that is why we do this. We made it Welcome to day five. How was your day? I'm tired.

Leo Guinan: 49:15

It's one of those days that's not terribly exciting, but it's so good to get into new stuff. And then the nostalgia that's like oh yeah, stuff did happen in the past. I should think about that more. I shared a lot of thoughts and went through some pictures of like things since the like the beginning of the company. Yeah, you know pics from like taken during zoom calls with some of their investors, pics taken at some of the off sites Beautiful, yeah, it's hard to believe. Like I'm definitely one of the longest tenured people left. That's awesome. And so it's like it's kind of crazy to like. Look at that and I'm like God damn, I'm old, like.

Lobow: 50:00

Oh, I know I think all of us, like on this podcast or whatever, are around the same age and we're getting to that point where it's like, wait, what is mortality again? Like, is that? Like, have I done everything I want to do and now I have to speed it up because I'm making you up for lost time? Or is it just the 40 year old? It could be like like I hit that point, like three years ago and I'm still pushing forward said so.

Leo Guinan: 50:29

It's one of those like you're ahead of the game. You know I had my midlife crisis early. I'm a quick learner.

Lobow: 50:40

What I want to talk about today, briefly, in five minutes, because, as you know, in 20, 20 more minutes you and I are going to talk to a bunch of other people to be there for them, and all of that. So I'll have to be honest like I'm I'm tired today. This is a tiring, not necessarily day, but just week, build up to the exhaustion. But if I didn't do it this way, I wouldn't realize why, which plays perfectly into knowledge, which is the final element you do this very, very well. How do you use your knowledge in a way that you just keep going? Like, do you take break? Like, is it knowing when to take a break or is it knowing what steps I have to do to make it easier? Combination of both, like any of those things I would love to hear because I need to know.

Leo Guinan: 51:35

So one of the things I've learned to do is trust myself, and so if it's something where I'm struggling with focusing on something and maybe I'm sitting in like I pull up a game on my phone or something to just mess around with, I kind of just sometimes I think I just need to like let my subconscious do the processing and zone out on the game for a bit, because usually what happens is at some point I kind of get hit with like a spark of inspiration and then get all excited about doing something and go do it Right Now. I will say there are downsides to that, oh, yeah.

Leo Guinan: 52:23

I don't always get that inspiration and then it's like, okay, well, now I've been like doing nothing and it's kind of hard. So I do need to figure out ways of getting better with some of that consistency, but a lot of it. My brain is rebelling against stuff for a reason, and so if I can figure out what that reason is, I can either go around that reason or I can just let it resolve itself, because it usually does. And I think one of the things we try too hard to do is push back against our natural tendencies and that makes them worse. It's like a Chinese finger trap, right, right, like you know. You kind of like all of a sudden, like you're trying to pull out and you can't because it makes it tighter. Then like you kind of relax and you can just slowly remove it, and it's that sort of thing.

Leo Guinan: 53:23

And so when we get all stressed out about the fact that we're potentially going to screw things up and things will be delivered on time and this, and that we end up clustering ourselves and then missing out on details that end up bringing about some of the failures that we were worried about the first place, there you go, whereas if you just let yourself go and say okay, I'm going to give myself the break that my brain seems to want and then, given the opportunity, ease back into work. It requires being very fluid, but I think it becomes very effective. You can manage to do so, or at least that's what I'm fooling myself to believe. So you know, it's one or the other. If you pull yourself for, the better it works For the better, for the better.

Leo Guinan: 54:11

I mean, I kind of have to look at it like letting the non conscious part of my brain, the subconscious, if you will really take over and do the hard problem solving.

Lobow: 54:24

Yeah. So one thing I guess for me doing this for five straight days is I've edited and, you know, watched them every night after they were finished and I noticed that I interrupted a lot. That's, I have got to get better at that, and so I am making a conscious effort knowledge to not interrupt people as much, and I'm trying to demonstrate that here it's. It's hard for me, though. It's hard for me not to get so excited that I just want to say something, and because I'll lose it, right like I'll lose it if I understand.

Leo Guinan: 55:06

Also, I tend to ramble, and so sometimes I'll get started talking about something and forget to stop, at which point an interruption is welcome, because I just I've taken that train of thought and I've written it to somewhere and now I'm lost, you know yeah, it's also a lot of it is again being proud of us for doing this for five days straight, but it's more important than anything.

Lobow: 55:33

Like I told you maybe day three or day four they all blend together right that I was going to try to help myself just as much as helping other people throughout this. That is something I have learned is having I have learned a shit ton in the five days that we've been doing this, because I go back and watch it again and I'm like, well, that was a really good point. I should work on that. I need to work on that. And now I'm tired because it's five straight days of like, oh, you know this and this and this. Every day you're meeting with the same person, but it's someone that I love and respect, so it matters.

Leo Guinan: 56:13

So also something I'm proud of. I forget. I got my coffee times perfectly and I was ready by like a minute till I had managed to have my coffee poured and the carafe washed out and everything.

Lobow: 56:26

So you went with the same style, I think, as.

Leo Guinan: 56:31

I do the Yeti. It's my like, it's my one or two coffees, yeah, except it doesn't say about you.

Lobow: 56:40

Just say, leo, what make that happen in the future? But no, so being at day five in the end of this episode or whatnot, I it's fascinating to me how this goes every week. For me, like, no matter what it is, whether it's sports, whether it's people, whether it's it's always this trajectory of you start fast, you have heart, then you get pissed, then you're reliable to someone else, hoping that that will gain your attitude back and that if that doesn't work, now you're exhausted and you want to learn. So I'm here to learn now, and then that will translate into tomorrow, which translates into this never ending cycle of putting your best foot forward.

Leo Guinan: 57:29

If you want to like, make it sound all fancy.

Lobow: 57:32

No, I don't know I will.

Leo Guinan: 57:35

So what we're doing is we're setting up a flywheel where you can put effort in, and that effort compounds over time and makes the wheel spin faster and faster.

Lobow: 57:43

Yeah, but I want to break the fucking wheel and make sure more people understand that they can break it. Alspark has started a fundraising effort for Crisis Text Line. We have a goal of $19 per episode, as $19 supports one person in their time of absolute crisis with their mental health. If you would like to donate to our fundraiser titled Warren's Infinity, the link is listed in the episode's description and that was my wife's best friend and loved by all who came into contact with her. Leo Lobau spoke for five days straight and yet they're still getting up to speak to people about ADHD and mental health. Like how many meetings you know daily and all of that that we show up for. I am proud of us. If there's one thing that you could say to people about when you get tired how to combat that, if you really need to show up for something, how do you do it? Because I respect the shit out of any opinion you have.

Leo Guinan: 58:59

That's a good question, and it's not something that like.

Leo Guinan: 59:03

It's something I actually I typically have a hard time with, because what I've ended up defaulting to is approaching things with the calm professionalism right.

Leo Guinan: 59:22

It's kind of like we were talking about yesterday, I think, where it's like I've I'm doing it like I've been here before, I'm not getting super excited about anything because it's all just part of the process. Either it goes my way or it doesn't. It doesn't matter in the scheme of things, like I'm going to win in the end and I just need to see whether I win or lose this battle. So I know what I've got to do for the next one, and so I actually think there would be times when I would be better served to get fired up about opportunities and get myself to believe that they're more do or die, because I think I could extract a higher level of quality by doing that Absolutely. Now, that said, if I had to not have the ability to do that, the ability to approach things with a level head is fine. I don't mind that being the what we all said and done, that'll be okay.

Leo Guinan: 1:00:34

You can get very far with just the professional mindset of I'm doing it because it's time to do it and that's it. There is no discussion, there's no question as to what's going to get done and what's not. It's just like no, I'm here, it's time to go work. I mean, I would think if you're having trouble putting energy into anything, I would say, just try to do the smallest bit possible and approach it with the idea that it's being done professionally, whatever that small thing is, and truly start small. If you're looking to better eating habits or something, he's just start with drinking more water, like I'm going to drink this amount of water whenever I do this, fine, set something and then just be like that's the rule and because I'm professional, I follow the rules and I do this thing because that's the rule I've set. And so when you start setting those rules, it becomes much easier because it's not a decision anymore, and I think we touched on this earlier in the week too.

Leo Guinan: 1:01:49

I do try to set myself up to where it's like I don't need to make decisions.

Leo Guinan: 1:01:55

I want to make easy decisions, and one of the things that I learned from my days at poker I keep going back to because there's so much of it applies.

Leo Guinan: 1:02:05

But one of the things that I would always that I always had a bad habit of is I would play myself into tough decisions and so, because of the way I like to play, I would get into situations where it's like, okay, shit, I don't really have anything, but maybe I've got a little something and I still think I have a little more than that guy over there.

Leo Guinan: 1:02:35

And there's all this unknown that gets into that. And while I felt I was decent in those situations most of the time, it's like I could have just not been in that hand because I probably shouldn't have been anyway. And it's like and if I don't play that hand, then I don't get into the hard situation that may end up with me getting knocked out of a tournament or whatever. And so one of the things I really worked on after I stopped playing much like now I just play every once in a while, but I'm much more selective about the positions that I even put myself in the ADHD part of your brain is like but I can play this hand, it's right here now, it's that Right, and so kind of just figuring out how to think about that differently. And yeah, going back to that poker experience for a lot of things because it is so kind of, teaches you so much about life.

Lobow: 1:03:36

It's just didn't realize it at the time.

Leo Guinan: 1:03:38

Right, yeah, it's the same thing. That's like, yeah, that's the funny thing, all these games and all of this information is caught up in these games and you can apply them in all different areas of life. But that's just how people learn them. Because I actually I do view sports as like the most pure form of humanity and it's something I keep looking to for different models, because a lot of things actually, even the way pro athletes are paid and all of this I think that tells us a lot about what the natural state of any profession would like should look like. But because we've got all these different societal ideas on how people are valued, like some of our players are very much just like it's a pretty basic math equation of like you know how much are they worth, you know, so that there's, like you know, positional skill, like you end up matching up against others in the league and you're kind of comparing apples to apples and like position to position, and you know there's a lot that does go into that. But essentially, like those salaries will keep going up as long as more people are there to pay the bills and buy the sponsorships and that money is just going to keep going up. And I think it's this really weird metric for the economy that people don't talk about. But the reality is like that's where the fastest changes happen.

Leo Guinan: 1:05:24

And you know Dionne Sanders too again like sports, right, he's figured out that reality has changed and so he's playing by a completely different set of rules. And what's going to happen? People are going to start mimicking him because they see it working and they're like oh, I just need to do that same thing. But the people at the front are the ones making the new games. Like they're like hey, this is, this is an opportunity. And yeah, I don't know where I was going with that. This would be a good time to probably interrupt. I'm working on that.

Lobow: 1:05:59

No, but so that's hilarious. First of all, I love Dionne Sanders. The problem is is there's a lot of people that are like, hey, I'm going to do that. But the problem is is that Dionne Sanders will create an entirely different world of coaching, that someone who is more talented than him at that aspect will take over. And then where is the recognition for Dionne when, 10 years down the road, this is normal. This is the norm now.

Leo Guinan: 1:06:34

Oh, but everything's recorded. No, this is a. This is a turn. That's that, that's what I wanted to hear Exactly.

Lobow: 1:06:40

Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted. That's the knowledge. That is Okay, now I'm awake again. That is the knowledge thing is that in the past, whoever started a world changing event, never got credit for it because someone else took it that might have been more talented or might have been more educated, or whatever. Now we can go back and say who started this? It's all on video, it's all on, you know, youtube or social media or whatever. That's fucking awesome, Leo. What are you most proud of today?

Leo Guinan: 1:07:19

Most proud of, I think, the reflection piece of today, like just kind of reflecting back and, you know, using the the work anniversary event thing, because, like I'm coming up on celebrating two years too. So I'll have been there two years here in like two weeks or something, and yeah, like it's it's wild to see how, like it wasn't that long ago, but it was also a lifetime ago, or possibly two or three lifetimes ago. And yeah, just taking some time out to to appreciate that fact and really think about where we've come, like we've come a long way and this has been a hell of a journey so far. It is just going to keep getting better. That's one thing that I have absolutely no doubt in my mind. Like it's going to get bigger, it's going to get better and the world's already changed and it just doesn't know it yet. There it is we won this game. Before the other team steps on the field yeah, we did.

Lobow: 1:08:22

Well, you won it way before I even came into the picture. But you just need to literally curse me to say you fucking won.

Leo Guinan: 1:08:32

I just like to come in look around. Finish my part of it before anyone else even gets in the room.

Lobow: 1:08:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the walk through and all this stuff and I'm just like fucking Leo's awesome, god damn it. But okay, so now I feel normal again. It's I am most proud of again us for doing this for five days straight and recognizing that I have a lot to work on and loving the fact that I have a lot to work on.

Leo Guinan: 1:09:00

Yeah, like that's boring as shit, if we were perfect right.

Lobow: 1:09:03

Right, but certain people mesh with other people and I think right now I have learned Tuesday was huge, tuesday was huge. The 10 am to 2 pm thing that that stuck out of my mind, like about anything else, was my optimal working hours are, and that, like if people with neurodivergence to recognize when their optimal working hours are then work during those hours, why don't we finish this after we get together with the people that need us the most? It'll be 10 minutes. I think we can do that, all right, all right. So, battling all these other meetings, leo and I have finally come to the conclusion of day five. Leo, what are you most proud of? God damn it. Ah shit.

Leo Guinan: 1:10:08

Most proud of this. Who fucking matters?

Lobow: 1:10:11

I know so same, absolute same. Like it's so humbling when you're going through all these things and then all of a sudden it's like oh, day one is just me and you, day two is just me and you. Day three other meetings, stay four a lot more meetings. Stay five a lot of other obligations. And yet we still show up at the end to finish it and say like Leo's unbelievable, leo's unbelievable.