Transforming Learning Differences into Student Superpowers

Ever wondered how the pressure cooker of college admissions impacts the mental health of our youth? Our esteemed guidance counselor, Caroline Farmer takes us through the hallways of their career, navigating the complex intersection of education and mental health. From the early days as a social worker to the triumphs and trials within the walls of a Title One school, their story unfolds, offering rare insights into the transformative power of support and understanding for students facing behavioral issues and beyond. 

Listen as Caroline peels back the curtain on the evolution of mental health awareness over the last twenty years, particularly when it comes to conditions like ADHD and anxiety. The conversation moves from the personal to the universal, revealing the seismic shift in how educators, parents, and students themselves approach learning differences and the tools needed to succeed. The pandemic's toll and its silver lining in fostering greater mental health dialogue also feature prominently, reminding us that every small victory is a stepping stone to resilience.

In the final chapter of this journey, the spotlight turns to the celebration of individual strengths and the remarkable potential within each student. Stories of those who've harnessed their learning differences and turned them into superpowers abound, providing not only inspiration but also practical wisdom on the importance of self-advocacy and finding the right educational path. Through our guest's reflective lens, we're encouraged to look within and honor our own capabilities, leaving us with a powerful message of self-affirmation and hope. Join us for a conversation that's not just about education, but about the courage to face life's challenges head-on.

Lobow’s SPARK is proudly supported by Leo Guinan, Kirk Hofstrom, Casey Elliot, Sarah Delano, Justin Allingham, Blushing Crafter, Jamie Young, and Beth Jones.  It is also supported by 14 anonymous supporters.  Whether you want to be mentioned by name or remain anonymous, this podcast does not exist without you.  Thank you so much for your support.

Lobow’s SPARK has started a fundraising effort for Crisis Text Line. We have a goal of $19 per episode as $19 supports one person in their time of absolute crisis with their mental health. If you would like to donate through our fundraiser in titled “Lauren’s Infinity”, the link is listed below.
https://www.classy.org/fundraiser/3638033  

The background music during the recognition parts of this episode, was written by Guy Farmer.  Look him up on Itunes!!

MERCHANDISE NOW AVAILABLE! This is a work in progress but tell me what you want, and I will make it happen!  https://lobowspark.myshopify.com

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

I only ask one question in this, and that is what is your story, what is your journey with mental health? Okay, you can tell this, however the fuck you want, you can curse, you can do whatever the hell is necessary. It's basically, I just want to provide a platform to where people can actually say what they feel, instead of having the world shit on them for saying what they feel. So you are welcome to tell any story you want.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Okay, well, I I think that part of the reason why my brother thought I would be good for the podcast is because of my experience in the field of education.

Speaker 2: 0:48

So you know, after college I went to, I went and got a degree in social work, a master's in social work, and when I first got out of grad school I was working in like a grant funded program in a title one elementary school, in like a grant funded program in a title one elementary school, and we I was the social worker on the team and so we were dealing with it really ended up being a lot of behavioral issues. And so the purpose, like I, wanted to help kids work on their mental health and help kids with mental health issues, and it really ended up being a lot of behavior management. Teachers would send the kids to us if they misbehaved in the classroom, just because they didn't have a choice, and so after that first year we actually lost our grant and a friend of mine in the school said you should actually be a guidance counselor. Like a guidance counselor is a really great way to do what it is you want to do without the worries of will I lose my grant next year. So I became a guidance counselor, so I spent about.

Speaker 2: 1:46

Yeah, so I spent about five.

Speaker 1: 1:47

I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:50

That's very cool, yeah it was really and I really loved the job I was doing. But it was. I didn't feel like I was really doing anything other than babysitting kids, just because of the amount of kids we had and the amount of time. So I went back to school and I got you have to have a master's in education and so I became a guidance counselor. So I was a guidance counselor in the public school system for about five years it's definitely a title one kind of inner city school, and I loved every second of it there. And then I spent one year at an academic magnet and then I actually ended up falling into college counseling. So I ended up back at our alma mater working in the college counseling office.

Speaker 2: 2:33

Yeah, so I basically ended up at a private college prep school doing college counseling and while I think at first glance it seems like okay, well, now you're just doing college stuff, but I felt like I was actually dealing with mental health, with the kids, more than I was as a guidance counselor, because now you know we had a specific guidance counselor at the private school that would deal with the social and emotional stuff.

Speaker 2: 2:58

But when you're working with 18, 17 and 18 year olds on the college admissions process. There's a lot of mental health involved, whether it's you know the emotions of you know. Can I get in anywhere? Am I good enough to dealing with the stress and pressure of the process, but also just being an 18-year-old senior in high school and then also helping the students that did have learning differences, helping them not only get the accommodations and supports they needed at school, but how would they use that in the admissions process to then also get those accommodations in college. So, wow, I almost yes, I almost deal with it more than I did as just a straight up guidance counselor, and I've been doing it for over two decades now.

Speaker 1: 3:39

Wow, caroline, jesus Christ, yeah, that is so sick, because if I had a guidance counselor like you, maybe I wouldn't have said fuck off.

Speaker 1: 3:53

I don't want to talk to you Going through that system that the high school presented such a wrong way of doing things, and it was if you don't get this grade, if you don't do this, we're going to just apply more pressure, more pressure, more pressure, and I'm like, fuck this. Yeah, like I, I just care about people, like I just want to talk to human beings. You're not a human being to me, fuck you. Right, you know, and that that, literally, caroline, that that is so awesome.

Speaker 2: 4:30

Yeah, I love my, my job and, and you know, there I feel like you're still doing that now.

Speaker 1: 4:35

Yeah, I'm still doing it now for the high school we went to Is that no, I I've changed schools.

Speaker 2: 4:41

I'm at a different school now.

Speaker 2: 4:43

I feel like, like you know, when we and I'm a little older than you, but I feel like when we were graduating from high school and going to college I mean the high school we went to there was a lot of pressure, like you are going to college period, I mean there wasn't a question of are you going, you're going, and I feel like that landscape, more pressure. But one thing that I think has become a little better is, you know, the movement towards college is not for everybody, you know, and if you don't want to go to college, there's a lot of amazing options and you know there are plenty of people, friends, I have students I've had that make more way more money than I do, that never went to college. Right, but you know, find their, their passion.

Speaker 1: 5:30

It's that stigma of you have to go to college and, yes, it is harder to get to where you want to be without that. You know, quote, degree or whatever it is companies hire you, right, like, but the I feel like the people that that do things really, really well are the people that say I want it to be hard because then I appreciate it more and that's kind of my thing is like I want it to be difficult because if it's not difficult, I'm going to get bored of shit and I'm just going to stop. Like, if it's easy, if it's handed to me, it's like okay, well, great, I have a degree. What am I going to do with this? Yeah, like I want the difficulty and I think a lot of people with mental health issues want the difficulty. I mean, it's kind of this thing in their brain where they're like I, yeah, it would be nice for things to be easier, but I hate nice be hard. I want it to be a big story and I think that's fantastic. How many kids would you say?

Speaker 2: 6:57

not kids. How many people would you say you speak with that have ADHD, bipolar, all of this? Yeah, so it's, it's interesting, you asked this. So when I first started over 20 years ago, even as a guidance counselor, you know I did either I don't think there was less amount of kids, but I think that less kids were either not like knowledgeable about what their disability or mental health challenge was, or there was just too much stigma to come out and say you know, this is what it is. So I will say now kids are much more open about it and I don't know if it's the social media era or whatever, but now the kids that I mean levels of anxiety in college-going kids is huge.

Speaker 1: 7:35

I think it was COVID actually that forced everyone to kind of reanalyze.

Speaker 2: 7:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:43

You know what?

Speaker 2: 7:43

It could have been.

Speaker 1: 7:44

Yeah, it could have been COVID.

Speaker 2: 7:46

And I also do. I do think there is something to be said for for kids being more open about it. I mean, kids these days will share anything. Nobody ever knew my SAT score and these students these days will literally shout it across the auditorium at their friend Like they don't care. They're like, yeah, I got a blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1: 8:02

I was that kid. You remember this? I was that kid. I'm like I got a five on my ACT or whatever the hell it was. No, not a nine. I got five points for doing this and I was like I don't give a shit, it didn't matter to me these days don't either.

Speaker 2: 8:20

Good.

Speaker 1: 8:23

Okay, so we're making progress.

Speaker 2: 8:27

No, I was just gonna say I do see more and more kids that are having anxiety and it could be from covid, but more and more kids that have anxiety. I don't see as much bipolar, because I don't think bipolar gets diagnosed until usually like early 20s, um, but I see a lot of anxiety, I see a lot of depression. I see a lot of adhd. I see a lot of depression, I see a lot of ADHD. I see a lot of dyslexia and kids, I think, are again more open to say, hey, like I have dyslexia, I need accommodations, coming into my office and saying, here's my IEP, that's an individual education plan where you know it says what accommodations they need, et cetera. And they're more open about saying that and just closing it in in college applications as well because knowing, okay, when I go to college I'm going to need these same accommodations and supports. And so now, looking at it, okay, which colleges are going to be able to offer me not only services again for ADHD, dyslexia, but also anxiety, depression, you know, mental health in general.

Speaker 1: 9:24

So it's not just the initial uh context, it's you're following up and leading them to.

Speaker 1: 9:33

that's. That's incredible. I think that, um, let me pick, pick your brain is. I think that ADHD is very, very significant in this scenario Because, in my experience with it, ADHD allows these quote more difficult things to come in. So, like my brain, for example, I know what to do and I can't do it. Example, I know what to do and I can't do it. If there is no bridge from knowing what to do to doing it, that is going to lead you so so far down that maybe it allows bipolar or whatever else it is to come in, when I think what we should be saying is you have to build your own bridge, but it's going to be a lot harder to do it this way, but if you, do this.

Speaker 1: 10:34

You respect it more. You, every time you drive over that bridge from knowing what to do to doing it. I woke up today. I made my bed. That was a massive win for you know, for me, yeah, we don't celebrate that enough. Uh, in my opinion, and I think that society kind of shits on people with adhd because it's the quote you know, little kid syndrome. Oh, he can't sit still in math class. Well, no shit, I can't sit still in math class. I'm a five-year-old right boy that is bored as fuck right like so waiting for recess?

Speaker 1: 11:15

yeah, right, exactly, and recess is where we thrive. I, I think I did really well at recess. I sucked at the other shit, but this was fun. We don't pump people up enough, in my opinion, to be like, yeah, you might struggle with this, however, you're really good at this and as a counselor for you, I think that is a massive amount of pressure and also a massive amount of like satisfaction and going. You know what? I helped that guy, I helped that girl, I helped like how awesome do you feel when that person fucking succeeds?

Speaker 2: 12:04

It is awesome because, you know, I, in my experience, some of the smartest kids I've ever worked with are kids that have dyslexia and ADHD, because these are kids that are massively smart.

Speaker 2: 12:10

So not only are they doing the same thing their peers are doing, but they're learning how to overcome their challenges and do it. So there's some of the smartest kids I've ever worked with. They just need the tools and the resources to figure out how to do it. Yeah, but like, like you're saying, when you find a kid, like when you help a kid find a college, that is a great fit for them. So, for example, I have a student who is at a small private college right now and this student, he was picking between a large public and a small private and you know both highly ranked, great schools and he was really vacillating between which one and he chose the smaller, private and the way he's learned how to advocate for himself, how to, you know, use the resources he has, and he's thriving and it does almost make it more that more you know encouraging and more exciting for him and his family, because he's done this despite those challenges and he's figured it out, you know, and so it's awesome.

Speaker 1: 13:04

Yeah. The whole he's figured it out thing is like what an amazing thing to have is be like you know what? I did have to build that bridge and I built it. I don't now I can drive over and be like I did this, this here, nail here, this nail here, this nail here.

Speaker 1: 13:29

I honestly, I think people with mental health disorders which a lot of the students you work with probably have the most brilliant people because they have to figure it out. It doesn't come easy, right, it's not provided for them. If it's provided, then all of a sudden it's okay. Well, now I can't do shit because I'm bored and all that bullshit. It's like be and I'm not saying like you have to be hard on people, but if you give them the ability to be themselves and follow what they love, people with mental health issues will skyrocket to levels that you've never seen. I mean, we're different, right, I'm different. You've known me forever. I'm an interesting individual, so is Guy, your brother, so are you, so are a lot of these people. But guess what we're doing? We followed something we love and now we're succeeding. Yeah, and then we take that and help other people succeed. Yeah. To me, this is the biggest advantage that no one talks about Name one CEO, one great person in the world. That is fucking normal.

Speaker 2: 14:50

Yeah, yeah, I agree with you and, yes, I agree with you 100% and I love the focus that's coming on mental health. I have a former student from our alma mater who has really made it and I'm going to say her name out loud because she's all over social media, but her name is Daniela Pearson and she has really, really brought mental health to the forefront of everything and she's a big time CEO now and she talks about it all. She's been on the cover of Esquire, I want to say, or Forbes, and yeah, I'll send you, I'll send her info and stuff when we get out, when we end, but uh, but I just think the movement towards destigmatizing it has been really, really great. And you know, I feel like it used to be these kids that had, you know, accommodations. It was like, oh well, these are the extra time kids.

Speaker 1: 15:45

Nobody looks at it like that anymore. Oh my god, the extra time. Can I just mention that for a second? Uh, when I was given extra time on tests, that was a detriment to me because I didn't really I didn't study for it. Yeah, now I have extra time to realize how bad I'm failing this test and not knowing the answers. And so for some people with ADHD, if they're not interested, they're never going to study for it.

Speaker 2: 16:11

Whether it's double time, triple time.

Speaker 1: 16:14

Right, it could be three days.

Speaker 2: 16:15

That's three days of misery. Why don't I just fill in the fucking?

Speaker 1: 16:22

bubbles and hand it in and be like I'm done, and that's kind of how I think at the very end of the day, it's. Unless you get to know the individual person and what they're struggling with, you can't help shit. Yeah, and that's what, yeah you're. You can see it in your eyes. Your passion for this is like that kid went to this school. That is what we need more of.

Speaker 2: 16:48

Sorry, I get really animated about this. It is awesome. That's why I love what I do. I love working with kids.

Speaker 1: 16:55

Lobau Spark has started a fundraising effort for Crisis Text Line. We have a goal of $19 per episode, as $19 supports just one person in their time of absolute crisis with their mental health. If you would like to donate to our fundraiser titled Lauren's Infinity, the link is listed in the episode's description. Lauren was my wife's best friend and loved by all who came into contact with her.

Speaker 2: 17:25

At this age because they're figuring themselves out, and I think more and more colleges are figuring it out too, because I don't know if you've been hearing anything about it, but a lot of these colleges are moving away from standardized testing for admissions. Yes, so I think they're realizing I mean, there's a lot of arguments against testing, some of it being ethnic bias, socioeconomic status bias, but I think also just smart not everyone, it's like being intelligent and doing well on tests are not the same thing and so they're realizing that indicators of student success in college is not necessarily an SAT or an ACT. Indicators of student success in college is not necessarily an SAT or an ACT.

Speaker 2: 18:04

And so they're finding other ways to assess kids, whether it's reading their essays that they write, whether it's looking at their resumes, looking at their curriculum, looking at their grades. Interviewing kids, finding ways to get to know kids, like you said getting to know them beyond just.

Speaker 1: 18:20

This is my GPA, this is my test score. It is time once again to recognize the biggest supporters of this podcast. Lobau Spark is proudly supported by Leo Guinan, kirk Hofstrom, casey Elliott, sarah Delano, justin Allingham, blushing Crafter, jamie Young and Beth Jones. It is now also supported by 13 anonymous supporters, and I understand that, because I can curse and all that kind of shit. I get it. I get it. If you want to support this podcast anonymously, you are free to do so. It's totally fine, but this does not exist without you and I love you, right? And I think honestly, if I was the president of a college and I'm doing admissions, I want to meet the person. I don't want to read it on a fucking sheet of paper. I want to meet the person because if that person is smart enough to convince me that he will be good at this place, then he is a smart motherfucker.

Speaker 2: 19:24

And we should know how to get to it Exactly.

Speaker 1: 19:28

But but we don't look at those abstract things enough right now.

Speaker 2: 19:32

Yeah, yeah, and, and depending on the school, it's like so, at your institution where you work, I mean, that's an institution of 70,000 kids there's not enough time in the day to meet every applicant. 70,000 kids, there's not enough time in the day to meet every applicant, and so you know. But some of the smaller schools that have time to do holistic review, they're doing it and I think that it's to their credit and it's going to just enhance their student body and their population. But if you're ever interested in what schools are not looking at tests anymore, there's a website called fairtestorg and it lists every single college that doesn't require tests anymore.

Speaker 1: 20:04

Will you send me that please so that I can put that in the episodes description and all that, but also for everyone listening. I did not go to the 70,000 person. You know college, but now I work in their athletic department. It is possible. If you love something like football, I love football. You know me forever. I love football.

Speaker 2: 20:30

Right.

Speaker 1: 20:32

But it's so funny to me. It's like so how did you get to this point? It was I just dogged it to death because I really wanted to lead the team out of the tunnel, like that was my childhood dream. Yeah, that's all I wanted from like day one. It took me 30 years to be able to do it, but finally I got a chance to do it and it mattered Like it mattered, and I was like Because you worked so hard for it.

Speaker 2: 21:00

I know I wasn't just handed to you.

Speaker 1: 21:04

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 21:05

When you talk about you know, okay, your dream was to, this was your dream, and you got there. I think one thing that I've been really adamant about telling kids is that there's a lot of different paths to get where you want to be. So, for example, let's say they set a university as their goal and they don't get in. Okay, well, you can transfer, you can go there for graduate school, you can. I mean, there's other ways, and it's not just with college admissions, it's with life, you know. And so I think some people get dead set on if I don't get into this college, I'm not a success.

Speaker 1: 21:33

And so just think success comes in so many different routes and forms and god, caroline, yes, it, because it was honestly the initial dream was I wanted to play on the field.

Speaker 2: 21:46

As a football player. I'm 5'5". I was going to say you're not a tall guy, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:51

I'm 5'5".

Speaker 2: 21:52

You know whatever, Probably not going to happen.

Speaker 1: 21:56

No, I wanted to get on that field. So what do I have to do? I have to work for an organization, dog it to to death. That puts me on that field in front of all of those people that I idolize. Yeah, and when you get that, it's the same thing as playing. That's playing, it is.

Speaker 1: 22:16

Hey, by the way, I made it fuckers yeah yeah so you're right that speaks to what you're saying is there are a lot of different routes. It doesn't have to be exactly what you envisioned, right, exactly but the feeling. And it's not a linear process either.

Speaker 2: 22:34

Right. I mean it's going to be all sorts of different stops and starts. I mean that's not with college, that's with your personal life, that's with everything. So letting kids know that you know if it doesn't work out the first time, that doesn't mean well, that's dream over like done.

Speaker 1: 22:49

Unbelievable. Caroline. If you were my guidance counselor, I would have been on that field 15 years ago.

Speaker 1: 22:56

I can't make you six feet I know I'm working on it every day still, but no um, one thing I have to ask you and this is a very difficult question, it's the hardest question for anyone to answer, but it's also necessary is what are you most proud of in your life? This cannot be, though, this cannot be your husband, kids, anything like. It has to be a characteristic within you that you are most proud of. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 23:34

It does Okay. So it is kind of kid adjacent though, but cause I was going to say the thing I'm most proud of is my kids. But when you actually think about my kids and what makes them awesome, I think it's the parenting that I've in conjunction with their father. I don't want to take full credit and my parents, but I think I've done a really good job as as a mother, you know, helping, encourage them without over-pressuring them, helping them, you know, be themselves, helping them embrace appropriate failure, take appropriate risks. You know that level of parenting. What's that fine line of, you know, being a helicopter parent versus just being a free range like go do whatever the hell you want. So I will say I think, personally, one of my the things I'm most proud of is the parenting and the way I am, the way I mother, like the mother I have become, to my kids and I love that so much.

Speaker 1: 24:29

However, what individual characteristic you are you most proud of? That's hard. I it is, but the thing is, when people actually look, I think the last answer I had was when I was. If I look back at my younger years, I can honestly look up now and say I'm a kick-ass adult. That's basically what they said. I go, okay, yeah, that wins. But I do want to know, caroline, what is your best characteristic within you, because we don't talk about this enough. It's always about I know Right.

Speaker 2: 25:14

Other people, especially as a mother like you're literally constantly talking about everyone else.

Speaker 1: 25:19

It's time to talk about you, what you're great at. Yeah, it's time to talk about you what you're great at?

Speaker 2: 25:25

I yeah, I have a mean forehand on the tennis court, but I don't know Okay love that, love that. I guess maybe I am proud or I think I'm good at being like a loving giving person, so I think I'm good at recognizing what other people kind of need and being able to give that to them.

Speaker 1: 25:52

Can we shift that into? I am good at loving other people.

Speaker 2: 25:58

I am good at loving other people. There it is. That's a powerful exercise that's way harder than I thought it was going to be.

Speaker 1: 26:06

And that's. It's powerful, though, because, like I, was asked that question a while back and I'm like I, I have my dream job, I have a great wife, I have this, and they're like, no, what within you?

Speaker 1: 26:21

And I'm like, well, I can't say determination, because that's cliche, and then I can't you know all this and I'm like, I'm the most determined motherfucker you'll ever meet in your goddamn life. That's who I am. So this poor girl took her own life. Three years ago, I started a podcast. It's become successful. That's like, yeah. So within me I have a stamina to a degree that, like, I will never stop and that can be at a detriment to me. But that's also what I'm most proud of is the grit and the toughness that it takes to help other people. So it's kind of a rephrasing of it I think I'm good at this. I think, no, you fucking are good at this. Thank you, and I love you. You.